Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Come back to this group in under twelve hours, and i will have the resources posted. You have my word. So here they are. What initially led me to look into the claims of america going bankrupt in the earlier part of this century was a book written by Jim Marrs entitled Rule By Secrecy. The majority of the book is about bloodlines: genealogy that can be *successfully* researched by anyone. Either download it via bittorrent, or purchase the book. It is well worth your money, because the author doesn’t leave open ends or give false leads. The author quotes several claims about Freemasonry in particular that i have not researched, so i cannot comment on the validity of those claims. He gives almost all resources you’ll need to learn about what i claim: that america went bankrupt, is indebted to the Federal Reserve. Just because the word "Federal" is in its name, this does not make it a government body – that’s an assumption almost all of us make. Go through the steps he proposes in order to prove this for yourself; it is NOT part of the US gov’t. Any resource not offered in his book, you can find online. Yes, he offers online resources. Just read it, research the genealogy of the families mentioned, and you’ll prove it to yourself. The descendants of families who started world trade still run it. There are no super-evil religious nuts "controlling" the world’s markets; that’s conspiratorial hogwash.
It should be quite obvious to all that you are in denial regarding monied evil. Denial is a sickness/disease. As for your claim that no super-evil religious nuts exist, simply look at the Jesu’it’-freemason connection. hope this helps pass it on d
Response:
There are no super-evil religious nuts "controlling" the world’s markets; that’s conspiratorial hogwash. As for your claim that no super-evil religious nuts exist….
You misconstrue what i wrote and exaggerate what i said. Shocking. I claimed that religoius nuts do not control the world’s FINANCES or TRADE. I never, at any point, said they do not exist. To say as much would either be lying, or simple ignorance of the fact. People follow patterns. It is safe for me to bet that you handle other writings the way you handled mine: jump to a conclusion based on a misunderstanding (or oversight, either intentional or no) of what you read. Refining the habits of cognition is a Good Thing(TM).
Response:
"You need to fill in some gaps in your knowledge. Freemasonry has three, and only three, degrees. One, two, three. No more, no less. Okay, my British brethren will now correct me…<pause… The point is that the Scottish Rite degrees, which are numbered from 4 to 33 are NOT part of "blue lodge" Freemasonry. A 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is no "more" or higher a Mason that any other Master Mason." The Scottish Rite jurisdiction I belong to is called the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction, USA. The last time I looked, everyone who was there was a Mason.
I didn’t say that they weren’t.
Response:
JB, It seems odd to jump on someone who was actually defending Freemasonry from the effects of claims that can’t be substantiated. I read a lot of shit-talking, but no one actually proves anything -much less offers a coherent, intelligent method of dealing with such issues. Do you [dogna] have one?
Discussions with fraternalists argue like wet/dry drunks in denial. Do I have an opinion on the recurring issue of the ‘proof’? Of course I do. I have an opinion on everything! But proof of what? That fraternalism is monied evil personified? If so, I don’t have to prove what I, and many others, already know/see/experience. It is up to the proof seeker to prove that what is known/seen/experienced is clearly right or clearly wrong. Calls for proof are an simply fraternal dogmalogic tools designed to alter proof through the art of the[monied] lie[s]. Fraternalism cannot disprove/address that which will prove that fraternalism is, what is/has been asserted/asserted. Simply and clearly, fraternalism is monied evil, hiding[transparency] behind monied lies in plain sight. Fraternalists are vulgar control freaks, addicts, users, whores, actors. Adult’ified children by monied evil design. Ritual ocCULTists. Collective’ists. Neo-cons. Monied, self-professed elite’ists addicted to genocidal-greed[blood-lust] as a way-of-life-inc. Monied fraternalism is but a bunch of boys clubs of dysfunctional…bio-borg children. I believe monied fraternalists/ism will be found guilty of profound crimes against humanity and judged accordingly. denial of proof of what is already proven is denial squared – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -<- Pope Pompous Pilot etc…
Response:
"You need to fill in some gaps in your knowledge. Freemasonry has three, and only three, degrees. One, two, three. No more, no less. Okay, my British brethren will now correct me…<pause… The point is that the Scottish Rite degrees, which are numbered from 4 to 33 are NOT part of "blue lodge" Freemasonry. A 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is no "more" or higher a Mason that any other Master Mason." The Scottish Rite jurisdiction I belong to is called the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction, USA. The last time I looked, everyone who was there was a Mason. Something that is often overlooked is that there are, in the US, two totally separate degree systems, the York Rite and the Scottish Rite. US lodges, with some exceptions in Louisiana, work in the York system (Webb ritual). The York system histoically includes the Royal Arch Degrees. There are at least two lodges in the US that have the right *by charter* to confer the "Chapter degrees", although one chooses not to and the other only does so infrequently. The Scottish Rite does not begin at the 4th degree. It also has EA, FC and MM degrees. By agreement between Grand Lodges and the Scottish Rite bodies, the first three Scottish Rite degrees are typically not worked (with the noted LA exception). Even the qualification that there are only three degrees in "blue lodge" Freemasonry supports that there are different avenues of Freemasonry. The presentation of the presentation of the Apron in the EA degree indicates that this is the highest honor that can be conferred upon a man unless such honor be given by a Mason (I paraphrase). In the MM degree, the position of the Greater Lights is explained to the candidate to indicate that he has received all the Light that can be communicated in tha Blue Lodge. The EA lecture indicates that a Mason could confer upon him a still greater honor than what has just conferred (one might argue that is simply the MM degree. I would disagree simply because the MM is told that he is still only given partial Light and that the Word is still lost and he is given a substitute Word in its place. His work is clearly not done. Those lost items are not replaced until the Royal Arch Degree (York Rite) or the 13th Degree (Scottish Rite). These stories are an intimate continuation of that which began in the Craft Lodge. Now, having said all that, I am not suggesting a 33′ degree Mason is "better" than an EA. He has certainly been communicated more Light than an EA has been communicated. One only becomes "better" when they truly set themselves down the road of such improvement. There are EA’s in my lodge who have a better grasp of the true meaning of Masonry than some 33′ Masons with whom I would not trust my Chapter penny. Further, I would argue that I have not encountered anything in Freemasonry that wasn’t present in the very first EA lodge I entered. Further degrees provide more detail and context. However, the foundational elements are all right there hiding in plain sight – just like everything else in Freemasonry… -<- Pope Pompous Pilot Venerable Maestro Hodge Podge Lodge #23 Grand Lodge of My Pineal Gland
Response:
All cited beliefs are examples of pagan’ism.
What is evil about a tree-hugging wiccan? What’s bad about wanting to paint your face blue and pray to your benevolent god of choice while dancing around oak trees, like some modern druid sects? It’s your religious beliefs that make you think such things are evil. I suggest you research the ‘black pope’.
Any source you name, for me to use in researching the "black pope" conspiracy is easily found online. It took me less than 30 minutes to deduce from the sources i found, that the stories are mere guesswork; some even state as much. Others wanted me to construe their guesses and outright lies as fact. Again, you believe such claims because of your religious beliefs, not because of facts. I suggest you research the jesu’it’/masonic connection.
Tales upon tales have been written regarding that connection, which ties in with the superior general of the jesuits…very *little* of which can be proven. What is also not proven about jesuits & certain sects of masonry, is the assumption of controlling the world’s financial markets. The hard fact is that thirteen families *oversee*, NOT *control*, financial exchange worldwide. That is not "control of the world’s monies". To state that is to jump to a conclusion that hasn’t been proven. If my last name were Bilderberg, or just Berg, would you think my parents and I are controllers of British trade or own hotels in the Netherlands? You admonish people to "get informed"; take your own medicine and get off your high horse.
Response:
Come back to this group in under twelve hours, and i will have the resources posted. You have my word.
So here they are. What initially led me to look into the claims of america going bankrupt in the earlier part of this century was a book written by Jim Marrs entitled Rule By Secrecy. The majority of the book is about bloodlines: genealogy that can be *successfully* researched by anyone. Either download it via bittorrent, or purchase the book. It is well worth your money, because the author doesn’t leave open ends or give false leads. The author quotes several claims about Freemasonry in particular that i have not researched, so i cannot comment on the validity of those claims. He gives almost all resources you’ll need to learn about what i claim: that america went bankrupt, is indebted to the Federal Reserve. Just because the word "Federal" is in its name, this does not make it a government body – that’s an assumption almost all of us make. Go through the steps he proposes in order to prove this for yourself; it is NOT part of the US gov’t. Any resource not offered in his book, you can find online. Yes, he offers online resources. Just read it, research the genealogy of the families mentioned, and you’ll prove it to yourself. The descendants of families who started world trade still run it. There are no super-evil religious nuts "controlling" the world’s markets; that’s conspiratorial hogwash.
Response:
lol, controlling it from a web? Nah, i leave that speculation (for that’s exactly what it is) to conspiracy theorists. I’m not a member, so i wouldn’t know or have evidence of any worldwide satanic conspiracy. Satanic….please.
Indeed. From what i know of *local* freemasonry, the lodges here have only three degrees. That is what i was told, so it’s only hearsay for me. I read the stuff about 33 degrees and all that, from many different authors. Some lodges may practice that way (much like the O.T.O.) and others may not.
You need to fill in some gaps in your knowledge. Freemasonry has three, and only three, degrees. One, two, three. No more, no less. Okay, my British brethren will now correct me…<pause… The point is that the Scottish Rite degrees, which are numbered from 4 to 33 are NOT part of "blue lodge" Freemasonry. A 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is no "more" or higher a Mason that any other Master Mason. I am in no wise religious, so would never be part of a fraternity who believes in a creator. No offense, mind you. Masons in my community are well respected. Known for their actions, like the Scottish Rite Children’s Medical Center, not for what conspiracy nuts claim.
That’s good to hear. We get so little of that hereabouts.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone can read these things for themselves. That would rather make them "not a secret" anymore, wouldn’t it? 
I should have phrased my last sentence differently; pardon the oversight. Anyone can read what masonic writers have to say *to the general public* about whatever topics the works address. Is that not fair to say? Pike did his writing well over a century ago. While there is much to admire about his knowledge and his intellect, he had no special standing in North American Freemasonry. This hardly makes him qualified as an "insider" or "high ranking" Mason who would have been privy to such alleged "secrets". Agreed. He has basically zip to do with modern freemasonry. But, man, he really makes you look at the backgrounds of religions. That’s probably why his works circulated among south US Scottish Rite masons for the better part of, what, 50 years or so. And please, don’t make the mistake of confusing Pikes status in the AASR with his standing in Freemasonry. Duly noted. Again, people who wanted to know whether that is true or not can read masonic books publicly available. And as most of them are incorrect, you will still be as mistaken as you are now. Am I wrong in taking "most of them" to mean older masonic works? That could certainly be true, since many groups tend to make internal changes over time, for whatever reason. The older material, relating to whatever branch "XYZ" could very well be invalid for "XYZ". Again, the highest offices in Freemasonry are ELECTED positions. I wouldn’t know, as i’m not affiliated. No offense intended, but I tend to take statements about the inner workings of religious cults and groups with a quarter grain of salt. The organizational structure isn’t of much consequence. Knowing that structure would serve me what purpose? Your inference that it is some non-xtian religion that "runs" Freemasonry is a lame that we’ve heard many times before. Just as many times, we have challenged the poster to offer proof. Just as many times that they failed. You are standing on the brink of making history. Care to take a shot at it? lol. Hmm… I bet if you give me some time, i could whip up a good story. I’m a real sucker for creative challenges. I’ve conversed with three dozen or so local masons at length about their personal beliefs and what goes on in their rituals; after reflecting on those talks, and reading what i have read about the role of Freemasonry, Kinghts Templar, and others in history,i made a conclusion. (Oh, these are all Blue Lodge guys, for what its worth.) Without a shadow of a doubt in my warped little chunk of meat upstairs, masons practice whatever they choose: no rituals, wiccan rituals, christian rituals, gnostic voodoun, assume egyptian godforms, siddha / hatha / kundalini yogas, practice the Art as outlined by the Golden Dawn, live by Liber Al Vel Legis if they choose, rituals of Ordo Templi Orientis….whatever they choose. A man’s relationship with what he believes the creator to be is his own damn choice. The applicant learns what the lodge they’re applying to is about before they actually apply. At least, that’s how i was told it’s done around here.
All cited beliefs are examples of pagan’ism. One thing I don’t believe is that Freemasonry, as a whole, is run by a central head. There are even sects of black dudes (locally) who are in that racist, psychotic 5% Nation of Islam crap – but say they are masons. They wear the rings, have their own secret hand gestures – which they claim date all the way back to when Yakub created us "white devils" through interbreeding light skinned blacks! Ha! That’s one of my favorites.
I suggest you research the ‘black pope’. And finally, no. I do not believe some non-xtian religion "controls" Freemasonry. Which one? The mother lodge? Scottish Rite? French? German? Southern F&AM? lol, that would be some fantastic control! Sorry you inferred that from my post.
I suggest you research the jesu’it’/masonic connection.
Response:
A 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason is no "more" or higher a Mason that any other Master Mason.
My former pastor told me as much when i asked him about the luciferian "doctrine" of Pike. He actually opened literature with me, patiently listened to me spout what i read about masonry, then showed how those claims were untrue in his case. Of course, he encouraged me to obtain a copy of M&D to read it for myself. Mackey’s History of Freemasonry clarified a lot as well. That’s why i defended masonry at the beginning of this thread. I like that phrase, "To ASSUME is to make an ASS out of U and ME." We get so little of that hereabouts.
Understood. Sad that many of us jump to quick conclusions drawn from misinterpretations, or just plain ignorance. Oh well! Can’t expect man to be much different. At any rate, I have a solid belief that many things i don’t understand now, I’ll figure out sometime after my death. That’s the goal. Hell, if we’re nothing but "ashes and dust" after death, then all was pointless anyway. But!…oh, i like this part… *But*, if the mind or whatever lives on after the body dies, there’s no telling where we may end up. What if it’s the Dream World? Oh, I’d have some fun. But what if it’s somewhere i’ve ever been? Who could ask for anything more exciting than that?! An entire plane of existence, none of which i have ever chartered. I’d end up surveying the whole damn place.
Response:
Anyone can read these things for themselves. That would rather make them "not a secret" anymore, wouldn’t it?
I should have phrased my last sentence differently; pardon the oversight. Anyone can read what masonic writers have to say *to the general public* about whatever topics the works address. Is that not fair to say? Pike did his writing well over a century ago. While there is much to admire about his knowledge and his intellect, he had no special standing in North American Freemasonry. This hardly makes him qualified as an "insider" or "high ranking" Mason who would have been privy to such alleged "secrets".
Agreed. He has basically zip to do with modern freemasonry. But, man, he really makes you look at the backgrounds of religions. That’s probably why his works circulated among south US Scottish Rite masons for the better part of, what, 50 years or so. And please, don’t make the mistake of confusing Pikes status in the AASR with his standing in Freemasonry.
Duly noted. Again, people who wanted to know whether that is true or not can read masonic books publicly available. And as most of them are incorrect, you will still be as mistaken as you are now.
Am I wrong in taking "most of them" to mean older masonic works? That could certainly be true, since many groups tend to make internal changes over time, for whatever reason. The older material, relating to whatever branch "XYZ" could very well be invalid for "XYZ". Again, the highest offices in Freemasonry are ELECTED positions.
I wouldn’t know, as i’m not affiliated. No offense intended, but I tend to take statements about the inner workings of religious cults and groups with a quarter grain of salt. The organizational structure isn’t of much consequence. Knowing that structure would serve me what purpose? Your inference that it is some non-xtian religion that "runs" Freemasonry is a lame that we’ve heard many times before. Just as many times, we have challenged the poster to offer proof. Just as many times, they failed. You are standing on the brink of making history. Care to take a shot at it?
lol. Hmm… I bet if you give me some time, i could whip up a good story. I’m a real sucker for creative challenges. I’ve conversed with three dozen or so local masons at length about their personal beliefs and what goes on in their rituals; after reflecting on those talks, and reading what i have read about the role of Freemasonry, Kinghts Templar, and others in history,i made a conclusion. (Oh, these are all Blue Lodge guys, for what its worth.) Without a shadow of a doubt in my warped little chunk of meat upstairs, masons practice whatever they choose: no rituals, wiccan rituals, christian rituals, gnostic voodoun, assume egyptian godforms, siddha / hatha / kundalini yogas, practice the Art as outlined by the Golden Dawn, live by Liber Al Vel Legis if they choose, rituals of Ordo Templi Orientis….whatever they choose. A man’s relationship with what he believes the creator to be is his own damn choice. The applicant learns what the lodge they’re applying to is about before they actually apply. At least, that’s how i was told it’s done around here. One thing I don’t believe is that Freemasonry, as a whole, is run by a central head. There are even sects of black dudes (locally) who are in that racist, psychotic 5% Nation of Islam crap – but say they are masons. They wear the rings, have their own secret hand gestures – which they claim date all the way back to when Yakub created us "white devils" through interbreeding light skinned blacks! Ha! That’s one of my favorites. And finally, no. I do not believe some non-xtian religion "controls" Freemasonry. Which one? The mother lodge? Scottish Rite? French? German? Southern F&AM? lol, that would be some fantastic control! Sorry you inferred that from my post.
Response:
We’re not a secret organisation. Say what you will, but the fact remains that Manly Hall, Pike and other notable masonic writers do indeed allude to having secret knowledge not only of some god, but also of history. These "secrets" are not for those apart from freemasonry. How does that not construe being secretive? Anyone can read these things for themselves.
That would rather make them "not a secret" anymore, wouldn’t it? Pike did his writing well over a century ago. While there is much to admire about his knowledge and his intellect, he had no special standing in North American Freemasonry. This hardly makes him qualified as an "insider" or "high ranking" Mason who would have been privy to such alleged "secrets". And please, don’t make the mistake of confusing Pikes status in the AASR with his standing in Freemasonry. We don’t have "high ranking" members – unless he means elected (I think not). There are no such things as rank or senority in Free and Accepted Masonry? Mm-hmm. Again, people who wanted to know whether that is true or not can read masonic books publicly available.
And as most of them are incorrect, you will still be as mistaken as you are now. To clarify what JB meant, we have elected officers in our lodges. We also have several appointed positions. The terms are typically one or two years. Sometimes an officer will be "recycled", again by a vote of his peers or by appointment of the master of the lodge, to fill vacancies. Such "elevated" status lasts only as long as does the term of office. The same goes for Grand Lodge (state level, in the U.S.) officers. Again, the highest offices in Freemasonry are ELECTED positions. We don’t "(have) mostly Christian sheeple as lower-ranking members". "We" is something i cannot comment on, since you are probably referring to your individual lodge, or branch (like Scottish Rite) of masonry. To make that claim for all masonic groups, however, is ridiculous. Everyone knows who the Shriners are; my Methodist preacher (when i was christian) was a freemason. Almost every mason i personally know claim to be christians of one sect or another. And i guarantee people reading this very thread know masons who go to christian churches, and probably masons who don’t.
Your inference that it is some non-xtian religion that "runs" Freemasonry is a lame that we’ve heard many times before. Just as many times, we have challenged the poster to offer proof. Just as many times, they failed. You are standing on the brink of making history. Care to take a shot at it?
Response:
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We’re not a secret organisation. Say what you will, but the fact remains that Manly Hall, Pike and other notable masonic writers do indeed allude to having secret knowledge not
No offence to the proponents of these writers but I assure you they are non-entities in the real world. I once mentioned the name "Albert Pike" in my lodge (having heard it repeatedly on Usenet) and not one person even knew he was a dead American. These are purely American-centric writers. We don’t have "high ranking" members – unless he means elected (I think not). There are no such things as rank or senority in Free and Accepted Masonry? Mm-hmm. Again, people who wanted to know whether that is true or not can read masonic books publicly available.
Certainly we have elections to decide who will govern our Craft, if that is what you meant then I withdraw the remark. I thought you were going on about these fabled "higher degrees" who secretly control The Craft from the centre of a web. For the record do you confirm that you accept there are only three degrees in Freemasonry and that 99% of Masons attain them? Everyone knows who the Shriners are; my Methodist preacher (when i was christian) was a freemason.
Hmmm…So you know who the Shriners are (another American-centric organisation), you know your Methodist preacher is a Freemason. Hmm…not doing too well with the secrecy thing are we? And, unless I’m mistaken, the USA didn’t really "(go) bankrupt decades ago & is owned by a company." It takes a short amount of time to figure that one out. It’s nothing like these conspiracy theorists would have people believe, but it is true. Nor is the bankruptcy of this country a hidden fact; look it up for yourself if you care to know the validity of this claim. Annotated codes by state, statutory law – these are the first places to look.
I have no opinion on this as I don’t know the history of the USA that well, would you care to name the company (especially if you could let me know on which stock exchange it trades)? Thanks. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQcIir/pxh1uHmCDzEQIQCgCgsKkCI52L1OfmdbIdWCjDpdY7Vv4An1xD ePF9N8RaVgqnKsw+N0cSZSan =h39G —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
Response:
No offence to the proponents of these writers but I assure you they are non-entities in the real world. I once mentioned the name "Albert Pike" in my lodge (having heard it repeatedly on Usenet) and not one person even knew he was a dead American. These are purely American-centric writers.
Correct. Pike was indeed american, a confederate general if i’m not mistaken. A statue of Pike is in this nation’s capitol in remembrance of him. Certainly we have elections to decide who will govern our Craft, if that is what you meant then I withdraw the remark. I thought you were going on about these fabled "higher degrees" who secretly control The Craft from the centre of a web.
lol, controlling it from a web? Nah, i leave that speculation (for that’s exactly what it is) to conspiracy theorists. I’m not a member, so i wouldn’t know or have evidence of any worldwide satanic conspiracy. Satanic….please. For the record do you confirm that you accept there are only three degrees in Freemasonry and that 99% of Masons attain them? From what i know of *local* freemasonry, the lodges here have only
three degrees. That is what i was told, so it’s only hearsay for me. I read the stuff about 33 degrees and all that, from many different authors. Some lodges may practice that way (much like the O.T.O.) and others may not. I am in no wise religious, so would never be part of a fraternity who believes in a creator. No offense, mind you. Masons in my community are well respected. Known for their actions, like the Scottish Rite Children’s Medical Center, not for what conspiracy nuts claim. Hmm…not doing too well with the secrecy thing are we?
LOL. You know what i mean. The masonic authors i have read talked about secrets and such. Of course it doesn’t pertain to all lodges. Pike’s Morals & Dogma began with, and i can’t quote it verbatim, a statement telling fellow masons to read his book, but to make up their own minds about the material contained within. Yes, i have a copy. I have no opinion on this as I don’t know the history of the USA that well, would you care to name the company (especially if you could let me know on which stock exchange it trades)? Thanks.
Sure thing. I will compile the resources into a coherent whole, and post it here for you, and any other interested parties, to have. It could be dreadfully boring, or exciting, as the one who regards this research is tempered. Overview: It starts with sheppardizing federal and individual state laws from 1928. One learns a good deal about the UCC, why we went from Common Law to the myriad statutes today. America’s bankruptcy had to be satisfied, to trade with the world. Ah, enough already. Come back to this group in under twelve hours, and i will have the resources posted. You have my word.
Response:
Once one becomes a dues-paying member of monied evil, one represents monied-evil-inc.
*Dare* i ask why you believe this? Yes, the US went bankrupt decades ago & is owned by a company. Yes, "legal tender for all debts public and private" means exactly what it implies. One cannot pay down debt with debt money, i.e., cash. "Secret" societies of today, like Freemasonry, are cults that have existed longer than the various christian cults. This country was founded by high-ranking members of those cults — which, ironically, have mostly christian sheeple as lower-ranking members. It’s a fact easily learned if you read their literature and talk to them, instead of making asinine assumptions. Where are you getting this satanic thing regarding freemasonry and other cults? The first freemason to make mention of "luciferianism" was Albert Pike, in his book Morals & Dogma. But he did *not* tell all masons to worship lucifer; that’s a standard my-cult-versus-your-cult christian lie. Have you even read what they believe? Read anything by M. P. Hall, Albert Pike, Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, E. A. W. Budge? It’s pretty clear that the US went from Common Law to the uniform commercial code in the blink of an eye — because it became *owned* before the 1930’s passed. What do you propose as a fit way to stop this alleged conspiratorial tyranny from continuing? Isn’t it a worldwide regime? And if such a dominant monster exists, how in the *hell* would it be reverted/stopped? I read a lot of shit-talking, but no one actually proves anything – much less offers a coherent, intelligent method of dealing with such issues. Do you have one?
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"Secret" societies of today, like Freemasonry, are cults that have existed longer than the various christian cults.
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JB, It seems odd to jump on someone who was actually defending Freemasonry from the effects of claims that can’t be substantiated. I read a lot of shit-talking, but no one actually proves anything
-much less offers a coherent, intelligent method of dealing with such issues. Do you [dogna] have one?< -<- Pope Pompous Pilot etc…
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am thinking about joining a fraternal movement like Freemasonry/GPO Elks/Kiwanis etc. I’m basically motivated by a feeling that I could be doing more to help my community, and I’m thinking of both donating funds to various causes and organizing the voluntary time of some of myself and some of my staff to assist bringing better well-being, in terms of healthcare and education, to some of those who may be less fortunate in their opportunities on God’s Earth. I’m looking at Freemasonry, GPO Elks, Kiwanis, and Rotary Club type organizations as a "force multiplier" for any efforts I put into that activity. Can you give me some idea of why you feel Freemasonry makes more sense (or made more sense for you during your decision-making process) than something like Rotary Club / GPO Elks? Many thanks for your assistance. David — David Bridges Fraternalism in all ITs forms, each in ITs own ‘way’, are in business to protect/defend/serve and profit from selling satanic monied evil. Well, I disagree. Many fraternal brothers, including priesthoods, exist to do God’s good works.
How…? Get informed. I am trying to become informed, thanks for your advice. Fraternalism aims to own your soul. My soul is not a commodity that is easily bought and sold, and in any case they would need to dicker directly with the title holder, our Father in Heaven, so I doubt they will get a good deal.
Good luck. Once one becomes a dues-paying member of monied evil, one represents monied-evil-inc.
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Many are dissappointed when they find out what our "secrets" are. This is particularly true when they lack the proper context and
preparation. Hmm. Dream control, traveling to the Temple of Knowledge & Amphitheatre of Wisdom, among other topics… I’ve experienced some wierd stuff. But people never talk about it; and never will – it’s forbidden. The only context i’ve seen this written in was relating to the Pyramids, Grand Lodge of Cairo, and other places of note. I especially like the masonic symbolism in Rosslyn Chapel. Have you seen the depiction of the Knights Templar carrying the Ark of the Covenant in a wheelbarrow? Do we need an entire religious apparatus, with more than 20,000 sects, to communicate and understand "There is but one God and ye should love each other as I have loved you."
Wonderful point. Sums everything up nicely. Even fewer will put their knowledge to work.
If there ever was a true statement. Sometimes simplicity and subtlety hides that which is most sublime. Sublimation…now that is a topic for contemplation…
One really great work that actually *teaches* how to understand the sublime, in the context you use here, is Garden of Pomegranates (sp?) by Eliphas Levi, one of the Golden Dawn if i’m not mistaken. What a great book.
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JB, It seems odd to jump on someone who was actually defending Freemasonry from the effects of claims that can’t be substantiated.
Fair enough, but I think you’ll concede; We’re not a secret organisation. We don’t have "high ranking" members – unless he means elected (I think not). We don’t "(have) mostly Christian sheeple as lower-ranking members". And, unless I’m mistaken, the USA didn’t really "(go) bankrupt decades ago & is owned by a company." Other than those points, I’m pleased he sees "no one actually proves anything". —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQcIITfpxh1uHmCDzEQKObACfUPBqM2OzbjJfb0LF+pVk7rXTQ7gAoNny clfobt6HrYvUne7/kt9/dCVp =rfGJ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
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We’re not a secret organisation.
Say what you will, but the fact remains that Manly Hall, Pike and other notable masonic writers do indeed allude to having secret knowledge not only of some god, but also of history. These "secrets" are not for those apart from freemasonry. How does that not construe being secretive? Anyone can read these things for themselves. We don’t have "high ranking" members – unless he means elected (I think not).
There are no such things as rank or senority in Free and Accepted Masonry? Mm-hmm. Again, people who wanted to know whether that is true or not can read masonic books publicly available. We don’t "(have) mostly Christian sheeple as lower-ranking members".
"We" is something i cannot comment on, since you are probably referring to your individual lodge, or branch (like Scottish Rite) of masonry. To make that claim for all masonic groups, however, is ridiculous. Everyone knows who the Shriners are; my Methodist preacher (when i was christian) was a freemason. Almost every mason i personally know claim to be christians of one sect or another. And i guarantee people reading this very thread know masons who go to christian churches, and probably masons who don’t. And, unless I’m mistaken, the USA didn’t really "(go) bankrupt decades ago & is owned by a company."
It takes a short amount of time to figure that one out. It’s nothing like these conspiracy theorists would have people believe, but it is true. Nor is the bankruptcy of this country a hidden fact; look it up for yourself if you care to know the validity of this claim. Annotated codes by state, statutory law – these are the first places to look. Other than those points, I’m pleased he sees "no one actually proves anything".
I believe that, yes. But in the context i used it in, of course. 
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"The few masonic authors whose works i’ve read do speak, however briefly, of the deep mysteries, et al, only taught to members, depending on their degree or rank within their respective lodges. Mainstream religions openly share the "knowledge" they have with everyone. In contrast, Freemasonry, 5% NOI and other groups consider their knowledge unfit for the general masses." Many are dissappointed when they find out what our "secrets" are. This is particularly true when they lack the proper context and preparation. Let us take an example from a "mainstream" religion of a similar sort. The Christian Master says "Know ye not that the ye are the Temple of God?" Do we need an entire religious apparatus, with more than 20,000 sects, to communicate and understand "There is but one God and ye should love each other as I have loved you." Many eyes will read, but few will understand. Even fewer will put their knowledge to work. Sometimes simplicity and subtlety hides that which is most sublime. Sublimation…now that is a topic for contemplation… -<- Pope Pompous Pilot The Pope of Freemasonry
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If it’s a "secret" society how do you know about it?
I know what i have read, and what i’ve heard from family members involved in both masonry & eastern star. Unless one becomes a member and stays actively involved for long periods of time, they will not be taught "the deep mysteries of god" as it was put to me. That cannot be accomplished by honorary membership, or so i was informed. Yes, it is hearsay. I got it from people i know rather well, and from masonic books anyone can purchase. The few masonic authors whose works i’ve read do speak, however briefly, of the deep mysteries, et al, only taught to members, depending on their degree or rank within their respective lodges. Mainstream religions openly share the "knowledge" they have with everyone. In contrast, Freemasonry, 5% NOI and other groups consider their knowledge unfit for the general masses. Who would i be to argue with that statement, not knowing what "secrets" or "deep mysteries" they know? All that’s apparent to me is that lies need to be hidden. But in turn, truth may need to be also. And thank you, JB.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am thinking about joining a fraternal movement like Freemasonry/GPO Elks/Kiwanis etc. I’m basically motivated by a feeling that I could be doing more to help my community, and I’m thinking of both donating funds to various causes and organizing the voluntary time of some of myself and some of my staff to assist bringing better well-being, in terms of healthcare and education, to some of those who may be less fortunate in their opportunities on God’s Earth. I’m looking at Freemasonry, GPO Elks, Kiwanis, and Rotary Club type organizations as a "force multiplier" for any efforts I put into that activity. Can you give me some idea of why you feel Freemasonry makes more sense (or made more sense for you during your decision-making process) than something like Rotary Club / GPO Elks? Many thanks for your assistance. David — David Bridges Fraternalism in all ITs forms, each in ITs own ‘way’, are in business to protect/defend/serve and profit from selling satanic monied evil.
Well, I disagree. Many fraternal brothers, including priesthoods, exist to do God’s good works. Get informed.
I am trying to become informed, thanks for your advice. Fraternalism aims to own your soul.
My soul is not a commodity that is easily bought and sold, and in any case they would need to dicker directly with the title holder, our Father in Heaven, so I doubt they will get a good deal.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am thinking about joining a fraternal movement like Freemasonry/GPO Elks/Kiwanis etc. I’m basically motivated by a feeling that I could be doing more to help my community, and I’m thinking of both donating funds to various causes and organizing the voluntary time of some of myself and some of my staff to assist bringing better well-being, in terms of healthcare and education, to some of those who may be less fortunate in their opportunities on God’s Earth. I’m looking at Freemasonry, GPO Elks, Kiwanis, and Rotary Club type organizations as a "force multiplier" for any efforts I put into that activity. Can you give me some idea of why you feel Freemasonry makes more sense (or made more sense for you during your decision-making process) than something like Rotary Club / GPO Elks? Many thanks for your assistance. David — David Bridges
Fraternalism in all ITs forms, each in ITs own ‘way’, are in business to protect/defend/serve and profit from selling satanic monied evil. Get informed. Fraternalism aims to own your soul.
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